" If you only knew (who) you were talking to at times. I do like entertainment news once in a while to counter-act the economic crisis news (four stock trades away from going "under" last week). We do have financial consultants, fella

Hip waders! I need hip waders. Posts are just too frightening and (actually), humorous "

" Annd: I won't be receiving Social Security as I don't pay into it.

I'm sure, though, that a financial genius like yourself plans on making Social Secutity the bulk of your retirement plans.

Since that is the case, I'm equally sure that you'll forego any retirement planning other than to save money under your mattress, or in a coffee can.

Aside from your ability to spell the word IRA (I wouldn't dream of asking you to spell 401k or 403b, nor trick you by asking you to spell 457), I doubt sincerely you have done any planning for the future other than to consult the T.V. guide for your favorite programming.

Apparently I am the only person of the two of us who has the ability to put across a forceful, dynamic, resounding compelling message.

You seem to have cut and pasted some housing start numbers from the Inland Empire from a year ago.

Good for you, Annd. Now I know you know how to use your cut and paste functions.

Those special needs classes are finally paying off for you. Maybe you really will learn how to properly make change for the customers at Walmart one day. "

" Oh, by the way I forgot that you're the only one that can put across the message forcefully, dynamically, resoundingly (COMPELLINGLY!)

"It was the third consecutive month in which sales of new and existing homes in Riverside and San Bernardino counties increased, rising from a combined 3,717 in September to 3,980 in October and 4,222 in November. Still, the vital signs of the Inland housing market remained extremely weak. San Bernardino County last month posted its fewest homes sales for a November on record, and Riverside County had its slowest November since 1997." "

" Johm, get a grip.

Get a firm grasp of reality. You're losing it. And, you might be a long way from retirement (but then again nothing will impact that Social Security you're going to receive when you get to that point, will it?) A good supply of money will be available when you go to tap it at retirement time - hope you live within your means (then) preach to the choir (of J Burton the deity) - not to me "

" Poor Annd: There is/was a "flood" of foreclosures in SoCal? Really? However would I have known that without you telling me that?

Good golly, I don't know!

What other "things", as you imply, are leading us to our "financial health," Annd?

Some overbought? Some? Some are having trouble keeping up with that mortgage? Really? When did they buy, Annd?

What did they pay for their home? How much did they put down? What were the terms of their loans?

Don't give me you're idiotic "people are losing their homes" because the price of a gallon of gas has increased, or because they have suffered an increase in the price of their gas & electric bills.

If spending $100/month more on gas is going to put you into a financial tailspin, then you're not hanging out with any people that I hang out with.

Our county is in the worst financial shape since the great depression? Really? On what do you base that statement? On the mortgage crisis?

On the cost of goods & services in an ever more increasingly globalized economy?

You're a liberal who is bitching about the cost of a gallon of gas, yet you moronic liberals constantly tout Europe as a model for all things socialistic, yet gasoline there is (in many places) nearly twice as expensive (or more) than it is here.

You get what you get. If you want cheap gas, then I guess we had better increase our available supply---as well as our ability to refine it, shouldn't we?

You tell me why milk---a renewable resource---is more expensive than gasoline? Please? Do tell?

Tell me why you've not been bitching to your Dairymen's association about price gouging all these years?

Are you going to tell me that's the President's fault as well?

I bet you are. "

" Wow, Burton you can emphasize better than anyone. Hats off to ya, Bud.

I also know (or have relatives) that live in those areas. Some overbought, some are having trouble keeping up with rising costs, and are finding it harder and harder to pay that mortgage.

There was a FLOOD of foreclosures in Calif, may man. A flood. You keep emphasizing that social programs shouldn't exist, but there are other things that are leading us to our financial "health" now aren't there? Our country is in the worst financial shape since the Great Depression, deny all you wish "

" Annd: I'm not at all in favor of the banking institutions being bailed out. NOT AT ALL! I think they should be allowed to fail.

I do not think the government should be in the business of bailing out any private business---ever.

Quite frankly, however, I don't what would happen to the economy if it were allowed to happen. From everything I've read and heard, if the government allowed Fannie May & Freddie Mac to fail, there would be financial catastrophe. It couldn't be allowed to happen.

The banks? AIG (Insurance giant)? I don't think they should be bailed out. Let them go down.

For all I know, all we're doing is delaying the inevitable anyway. "

" Annd: You are wrong about the people defaulting on their homes, and the mortgages they possess. I LIVE IN SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY. I have neigbors who have lost their homes. They bought homes they couldn't afford, and finanaced them with adjustable rate mortgages because the rate (in the first 1-7 years of the loan) was fixed below the rate of a conventional rate loan. They overbought, ANND! These poeple took a bigger bite than they could handle; they gambled and lost!

Others took out huge amounts of equity in the form of H.E.L.O.C. (HOME EQUITY LINES OF CREDIT) in order to purchase other properties (or make idiotic purchases of cars, boats, etc.) and couln't afford to pay the ADJUSTABLE RATE WHEN IT BEGAN TO CLIMB.

Then, when the real estate marken began to tank down here, those people owed more than their homes were worth because theY DRAINED ALL THEIR EQUITY BY BORROWING AND SPENDING IT!

Now you---and people like you---are making the idiotic statement that middle class people are losing their homes?

And this is the governmnent's fault?! Or, more specifically, the CURRENT PRESIDENT'S ADMINISTRATION'S FAULT?!

ARE YOU FREAKIN' NUTS?!!! "

" Some people can't keep up with the rising costs that occur at the pump, in the grocery store, on their elec/gas bill!

You know interesting point? (my spouse) and I worked our tail ends off also to possess what we have (I currently work, albeit two pt-time jobs--in educ and for a form of Gov't; at the time I went to a pt-time status my kids were involved in a sport, whereby one ended up doing quite well on a national level) and we TRAVELED A GOOD BIT --spouse puts in 10 and 12-hr days, so you could also say we work our tail ends off, I've also been looking for a 3rd job. We host other people in our home (two times now) - We also did not own our first home until our young ones were 8 yrs and 4-1/2 yrs old. That was a bit of a late start. We also upgraded into the larger home (staying 10 yrs in the too-small home, living actually below our means) also when the market was good to buy (and sold our other when the market was okay to sell) (having now acquired a home appraising for upwards of $180K for $105,000 (bec the owners were motivated to sell) --but even at that great deal our mortgage (not an adjustable rate, a low rate) - (our 1st one was actually a MT Board of Housing loan) is becoming "unaffordable."

I think from what I've read even those WITHOUT adjustable rate mortgages are losing homes to foreclosure.

(as related to your state):

"Inland defaults change direction, rising after two months of declines
Mortgage defaults, which mark the start of the foreclosure process, spiked in Riverside and San Bernardino counties in August after a two-month decline, smashing hopes that the flood of home foreclosures might be about to ebb (now, why would there be a FLOOD of home foreclosures?) Not everyone had adjustable rates, John. I'll concede on the fact that many did, but not the VAST MAJORITY - it's people like me, the middle class (upper) that are losing them AS WELL. Some people can't keep up with the rising costs that occur at the pump, in the grocery store, on their elec/gas bill! Its all tied in to what one can currently afford

I already conceded that the cost of living in Alaska was high, and if you can "open that wide oral crevice" that is placed on your face, the rest of us can, also and as some people know, nothing much deters me - -

Alaska Real Estate Market Snapshot:
updated Monday, September 15, 2008
Price
from Aug # Median Change
Homes for Sale 4,714 $236,000 +2.7%
New Homes 0 Foreclosures 814 $185,619 - 0.7%

I'm also quite aware that your cost of living is high in So Cal. Father-in-law came this summer, selling his home there (one of a fortunate grp that made a little money from the sale of his place, w/out losing big time) - but I also know people wanting to move here that are stuck (in your area) bec that home has de-valued so much, and there's a good deal of homes on the market (waiting to be unloaded). In our little comm. there are over 314 homes for sale, some even in the range of $300,0000 w/ median range of ab't what ours is worth (God knows why people built homes that they're not gonna be able to unload, but they were optimistic on those ones selling for upwards of $200 K) Those high-end homes are going to sit for a good long while.

You talk about all of us (that are so liberal) wanting to be taken care of "cradle to grave" - well you know what, guess what's happening to those big financial inst's -- they're now relying on GOVT to bail them out (and at no small price, right)???. That's a free market philosophy? The GOVT is BAILING THEM OUT - WHAT IS SO DIFFERENT ABT THE SITUATION THAN PEOPLE THAT RELY ON GOV'T PROGRAMS? "

" Annd: The vast majority of the people who are in financial trouble as a result of their inablility to afford their mortgages ARE NOT THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SUFFERED MEDICAL SETBACKS OR A "DIP" IN THEIR INCOMES.

You are so unbelievably wrong it isn't even funny. The VAST MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE POSITION OF LOSING THEIR HOMES SIGNED ADJUSTABLE RATE MORTGAGES WHICH ALLOWED THEM TO AFFORD A HOME THEY OTHERWISE COULD NOT QUALITY FOR!!!!

Another sub-group of people went out and took out HELOC's (home equity lines of credit---which are adjustable rate instruments unless converted to a 2nd trust deed). After borrowing AND SPENDING said money, these selfsame people found themselves in the same position as the people who bought houses (SOME OF THEM ON SPECULATION) they couldn't afford in the first place.

I worked my A$$ off to save for my first home. I worked my A$$ off to upgrade into my current home, which I refinanced into a 15 year mortgage when rates became more attractive.

Before you go opening your pie-hole about what Alaska's governor does in terms of taking care of Alaska's residence, why don't you check out the cost of buying a home up in Alaska.

You---a typical womb to tomb liberal---don't have the faintest idea about what you're talking about. Not one darn thing.

Try reading the financial pages once in awhile instead of the nonsense that the leader of the teamsters union spouts off in your union meeting.

I'd tell you to wake up and smell the coffee, but that would require you to leave your front door to buy a newpaper.

It's people like you who constantly are looking for someone to blame because you don't have as much as the next person, or because "you" are having trouble making ends meet.

Well, Sister, I've got news for ya. I pay the same amount that you do for everything---plus a hell of a lot more in state, local, and sales taxes than you do. Somehow or another I seem to be able to keep up.

I wonder what the difference is?

I'll leave that to you to ponder. I guess life up in Butte, MT., is more expensive, fast paced, and difficult than it is down here in inexpensive, slow paced, SoCal.

Tell it to the judge. "

" Tard: I admit I'm a partisan. I would never vote for a democrat---short of Zell Miller of Sam Nunn.

At least, however, I have the good sense to write things which are able to be easily checked.

I'm all wrong again regarding the federal budget? Am I? Spending on defense accounts for 60% of the federal budget, does it?

No, Idiot, it doesn't. Spending on Social Services (Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, entitlements, etc.) accounted for (in 2006) 49% of the federal budget.

Military spending in 2006 (which included the war in Iraq) accounted for 21% of the federal budget.

Moreover, the costs of the War in Iraq will be finite; they will go away or be greatly reduced at some point.

The cost of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid will, however, go on forever! It is these three programs which are bankrupting this country---not the War in Iraq.

You're an idiot. "

" CJR- I believe you misunderstood grumpy's last post. It was not about your opinion or thoughts but the way you attack others while attempting to state it. You have fits when John Burton post anything on here and even attack him before he makes a comment. I believe the point grumpy was making is how can anyone take you seriously but you are screaming slurs at other posters? "

" Also an interesting note is that somehow the mortgage crisis (maybe even the economic crisis) is somehow related to problems of one's own making if one believes "philosophy major" J Burton-- (now we're getting down to some REALLY ridiculous statements there).

We all make our own problems, no matter that the mortgage we took out for a larger place was affordable five yrs, ago, that a major illness disrupted the family, that there were more medical emergencies to follow, that income dipped to very little, that gas, groceries, cost of living shot up -- we should have made better "choices"

That is as we say, "rich"

Forget about home ownership folks, nobody but Burton can, and should afford this normally attainable goal. Don't sign the mortgages, you'll just be living beyond your means. But, by all means move to Alaska, where your Governor will "take care of you" (looks like they're experiencing a little of that liberal "cradle to grave" syndrome he keeps mentioning (and to keep insisting that social programs are the blame, not the War, or grand decisions by our current Fearless Leaders, is preposterous) He represents himself as a peace officer, someone enforcing law, he's got some whacked out philosophies "

" John Burton wrote on Sep 9, 2008 10:02 AM: " Deregulation of utilities did not cause corruption, and the Republicans weren't responsible for it.

Deregulation had nothing to do with the down fall of Montana Power that is true. But it had everything to do with what we are paying for gas and electric in this state now. Bob Gannon was right in the middle of the push. And look how was responsible. I would recommend you read the full article below.
CHIEF, FORMER LAWMAKER SPLIT ON
1997 law, facilities sale changed state power picture
By CHARLES S. JOHNSON of the Missoulian State Bureau
Monday, September 10, 2001
It became Senate Bill 390, introduced by Sen. Fred Thomas, R-Stevensville, long after the deadline and even after the transmission deadline - the halfway point of the session - with permission of leaders. It was a major, complex bill but was scheduled for a Senate committee hearing only a week later. Although amended often, the bill sailed through the Legislature, despite the opposition of some Democrats and groups representing environmentalists, consumers and the elderly.

About 95 percent of Republican legislators voted for SB390, along with about one-third of the Democrats.

Everyone should really read this
http://www.missoulian.com/specials/power/091001a.html "

" So grumpy, considering your point of view is that everyone's minds are all made up & it's a worthless exercise to debate; what is your contribution, and why do you even participate or care?

I personally think it is what we have to do as an informed citizenry to participate in democracy and be engaged citizens. I'm not cynical like you, I actually believe a lot of people still have open-minds, too bad your not among them.

One question I do have, grumpy is what specific item can you point out where my information is non-credible. It's easy to point out that other guys though. "

" Well, @cjr my VERY descriptive bumper sticker would read..."01/20/09 the end of an ERROR!!" "

" I'd certainly like to see some decency in politics. It's a corrupt game but I think we can do better than what has been the status quo. It's very true that the government has failed the people, and it was disheartening to see the choices that were made two terms (in a row) -- a President should be able to speak a coherent sentence once in a while also. If one wants somthing to be successful, you don't keep choosing the person or thing that will do the opposite. Most incompetent people don't stay in positions if they can't perform the job -- we're poised on the brink of complete chaos if things don't get uprighted. Change has to happen - "

" CJR, I really see no difference between your posts or John Burton's. You will both argue until 2012, and never convince anyone to change sides or even take a side, mostly because of the credibility you have created for yourselves here. "

" Silly, edwalter you should know better than to throw out a fact in front of Burton's firmly held beliefs and dogma. Ultra-conservatives tend to perform mental gymnastics when it comes to reconciling conflicting information and facts from fiction.
Fellows like Geach and Burton try to spin every fact to reflect unfavorably on Democrats, ANY democrat. They'll rail about their fiscal conservatism, which these days has become an oxymoron. Listen to them defend Palin as if they "know" her strong record and economic policies. These guys are colossal fibbers!
Today's Time Magazine reported "As if it couldn't support itself, Alaska also ranks No. 1, year after year, in money it sucks in from Washington. In 2005 (the most recent figures), according to the Tax Foundation, Alaska ranked 18th in federal taxes paid per resident ($5,434) but first in federal spending received per resident ($13,950). Its ratio of federal spending received to federal taxes paid ranks third among the 50 states, and in the absolute amount it receives from Washington over and above the amount it sends to Washington, Alaska ranks No. 1 in spending per resident. Its tax burden per resident is 2 1/2 times the national average; its spending, more than double. The trick is that Alaska's government spends money on its own citizens and taxes the rest of us to pay for it.

Don't forget edwalter, JB is an economic specialist and tax expert in his spare time when he's not serving the public as a law enforcement officer. His credentials have to be on par with Sara's, easily. "

" @edwalter
good statement, its been this way for a while and nobody has done much about it.

@cjr

Liberals have nondescript bumper stickers 49% of the time. "

" Deregulation of the utilities did allow prices to spiral out of control, and the Republicans were responsible for that deregualtion. Fact.

FDR's programs helped the country out of the dpression at the time, and both political parties, including JB's beloved Republicans have had chances to change that since then, but none have. Entitlements have been prolonged and expanded by both parties.

Again, JB, not all liberals feel that way, anymore than all conservatives back the war in Iraq. "

" In memory of Winston Brancamp
On September 8, 2008 Our beloved Winston passed away at his home. He had something happen to him, like a bug bite. His Mom and Dad called to see if they could have him looked at and before they would look at him they needed the almighty dollar. Well it is too late now. Looks are priceless, These are Gods creatures that need a voice. And that is us don't let the almighty $ get in the way. Winston will be sadly missed by his Mom,Dad,Sister Bailee, Brothers Flash and Bridger, Grandmas Shannon and Nancy Grandpas Ken and Bill nieces Taylor and Hallie we all loved him very much All you had to do was look at him. Thanks for all your help. The Animal Hospital 2330 Amherst Butte,MT 59701 "

" Burton has it all wrong, again, as usual. It's the War stupid. This Iraq War is going to cost trillions and nearly 60% of the national budget goes to defense. Burton would have you believe that borrowing money to wage this war is ... of know concern? What a rip, he'd rather claim it's some poor mom on welfare, or the guy who's job left for India or China & now is trying to make ends meet on a UI check, while the cost of everything has skyrocketed.

The Cons really have a lot of nerve blaming a Party that has been out of power for 8-years. He might retort "well the Dems have been in the majority for the last 2-years." Ha he doesn't even know that a slim majority can not muster the votes to override a veto, or even get legislation through a filibuster. Burton's attempts to disassemble can only work on uninformed low-information voters.

The sooner we rid ourselves of the neocon scourge the better. Democrats have had their problems of course, but the working person will be better served with a dramatic change in Bush/McCain policies.

Nice post, Mr. Fairhurst, getting an attack from Mr. Con-man is good! It means he (JB) is desperate to stifle your voice & shout you down. His comment says it all -- "Deregulation of utilities did not cause corruption, and the Republicans weren't responsible for it." Yea, if you believe that statement you're either stupid, or evil. "

" Deregulation of utilities did not cause corruption, and the Republicans weren't responsible for it.

Mr. Fairhurst needs to go back to the Depression era and worship his idol, FDR, who is responsible for the beginning the entitlement age & creation of programs we have today which are bankrupting us.

Maybe Mr. Fairhurst feels that he should be taken care of from womb to tomb, as do all liberals. "